Kerrang Radio Interviews David Wilcock

Kerrang Radio Show

David Wilcock

March 11, 2009

Nick Margerrison (NM):  It’s Kerrang. It’s The Night Before. My name’s
Nick Margerrison. Right, we’re going to get someone on the airwaves now who in
theory could well blow your mind.

His name is David Wilcock. He’s a researcher, a lecturer, a filmmaker, a
writer and he’s also in touch with a higher intelligence. He’s going to talk
to us about how sometimes your own mind and your own thoughts might not be as
private as you think. Let’s get him on the air.

David Wilcock, thanks for joining us on the show, man.

David Wilcock (DW): Nick, it’s my pleasure. I’m really glad to be here.

NM: So let’s start off with that. Our thoughts are not always our own. What
does that mean?

DW: It’s not a difficult concept to understand once you get down to what the
mind really is. That’s the question you have to answer first. In the
conventional scientific model we would say that your mind is the result of the
cells in your brain using electrochemical activity in order to generate
thoughts.

The problem is that when they try to find where, in cells, memories are stored,
there is no one cell that can actually correspond to a particular memory. It
appears to be very holographic, in the sense that memories are stored throughout
the entire brain.
NM: So when you slice a brain up, you don’t find a section marked
“memories”.

DW: Yeah. There’s some strange and a little bit grotesque experiments that
have been done to show that all of these areas of the brain that we think
respond to various things really don’t.

The most dramatic of [these experiments] is that they’ve actually trained a
salamander to go through a particular maze. Then they literally removed his
brain, ground it up, and poured that slush of his brain back into his head. He
actually does live.

His body is obviously a little deformed. I mean, he can’t walk as well he
used to, but he remembers the maze!

NM: Wow, so what is… Remind me what sort of animal a salamander is.

DW: A salamander is a little lizard creature.

NM: Right. So you take a little lizard creature, you pull its brain out, squash
it up, squeeze the brain back in, and then the salamander, confused though it
is, can still remember the route through the maze.

DW: That’s right.

NM: Oh, man, that’s brutal, isn’t it? So what does that tell us?

DW: It tells us that we have completely misunderstood what the nature of the
mind is. Look no farther than the many, many, many reports of people who have
near-death experiences, in which their body is completely flat-lined — brain
dead. There’s no electrical activity happening in the brain.

And yet they report floating out of their body; they see the doctor look at his
watch and say, “It’s about time I had a cappuccino.”

Then they come back in and say, “Doctor, when I was dead you said, ‘It was
about time for a cappuccino.’” And the doctor’s like, “Oh my God! How
did he know that?” There’s hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of very, very
credible testimonies of those things.

NM: So where are these memories stored, if not in the brain?

DW: Well, this is the problem. Mainstream science looks at only four fields.
You have electrical, magnetic, weak nuclear and strong nuclear force. Those four
forces are believed to comprise the entire universe in terms of its energy —
more when you get into Russia and a lot of alternative Western research as well.

But mainstream science in Russia has identified another field that they call
the torsion field. Now, in Western science you do have a torsion field. In the
Western model, it is just essentially some of the spinning movement that happens
within an atom.

But the Russians have decided that this spinning movement [also] travels
between atoms — it doesn’t just stay in the atom. And that’s actually this
whole new field, which seems to be more coupled up with gravity than it is with
electromagnetic energy.

There’s been a lot of scientific studies that have shown some really
compelling stuff to prove that this energy not only exists, [but we can build
working technologies out of it.] In fact, there’s a guy in Germany named Dr.
Hartmut Müller who has invented a cell-phone that runs on torsion fields rather
than electromagnetic energy.

That means you could be in concrete bunkers miles underground and get a
cell-phone call just as clear as if you’re on the surface. And because these
fields don’t travel at light speed — they travel effectively instantaneously
— you could be hanging out at the edge of the solar system and talk to
somebody in real time with no delay.

NM: Wow. So… [laughs] So there’s something called the torsion field…

DW: Right.

NM: …and it is all over the place and you can use it. You can have a mobile
phone going on it and it doesn’t need a satellite?

DW: No, it doesn’t. The signal only exists where it’s generated and where
it’s received.

NM: Okay.

DW: So actually there is no signal except in the phone that generates it and
the phone that picks it up.

NM: And you’re saying that memories, human memories, are stored inside this
thing called the torsion field.

DW: That’s correct. What I’m ultimately saying, if you want to broaden it
just a little more, is that all physical matter, all space and time that we know
of in the universe, is built out of this field.

This field is more important and more basic to our existence than
electromagnetic energy is. That’s the main thing that mainstream science
models have missed.

The Russians didn’t [miss it], but they kept it secret. Up until the fall of
the Iron Curtain in 1990 we didn’t have access to this stuff, but now
they’ve put out a lot of their research online. I’ve spoken to many of these
Russian scientists, and we really have some clarity now on exactly what they
think and what they’ve discovered. It’s really, really fascinating.

NM: So let’s get back to what we were saying before. Your mind might not be
as private as you think, and you are occasionally receiving thoughts that
aren’t your own.

DW: It’s more than occasionally. If you actually look at the total status of
everyone’s emotions in the world, you can measure people’s overall emotional
state by how the markets behave.

When people feel relatively calm and inspired, they buy stocks and the markets
go up. When people feel terrified and fearful, they sell stocks and the markets
collapse.

So if you look at market data, you have a long-term graph that illustrates
everyone’s emotional state.

And there is extensive research to show solar cycles affecting the level of the
markets. In other words, when the sun-spot activity goes way up, everybody sells
and the markets crash.

NM: Hang on! Sun-spot activity? What are you talking about there?

DW: Well, see, here’s the other thing that’s a very difficult concept for
people to understand. You have to expand what you mean by intelligence, past the
idea that intelligence is something that only happened in the human being here
on Earth.

Intelligence is actually the main characteristic of the universe — in terms
of the energy that makes it. And that’s what all the ancient mystics and
prophetic traditions say, but now science is actually proving that to be true.

You know, many of the quantum physicists — you’ve probably spoken to some
of them on this show — have proven that at the quantum level, little tiny
particles are responding to what we expect them to do.

NM: Right.

DW: If we expect them to be a particle, they’ll say, “Okay, I’m a
particle.” And if we expect them to be a wave, they’ll say, “Okay, I’m a
wave.”

NM: Yeah. I do know that when you get down to the really tiny level of the
universe, things start getting very weird. And like you say, the composition of
particles — tiny, tiny particles — what they’re doing and how they’re
behaving, whether they’re a wave or a particle or whatever, is dependent upon
who’s looking at them…

DW: That’s absolutely right.

NM: …[laughs] which is very weird.

DW: [laughs]

NM: So you’re saying it works like that on a very tiny level, but then you
were mentioning sun-spot activity. Now, sun-spots, as I understand it, are giant
hot patches on the sun that make a difference to how hot it is on this planet.
You’re also saying that, whereabouts those sun spots are, that ties in quite
neatly with how well the stock market’s doing.

DW: Right. There are various Russian scientists who have studied the flux of
sun-spots, which is an 11-year cycle. [They have] made very neat correlations
between the amount of energetic activity — sun-spot activity coming out of the
sun — and the amount of selling activity in the stock market.

What you consistently see is substantial increases in war-like activity on
Earth, and substantial decreases in the market value, during the times the sun
is shooting out more energy.

So what I’m proposing is — and there’s a lot of other evidence to prove
this — that our collective emotional state on the planet is not just something
that we feel privately; it’s being modified by an outside energy.

If you are in a room with a bunch of people and we turn up the heat to a level
that’s very uncomfortable, then people are going to start getting angry.
They’re going to start yelling. There’s going to be chaos and violence.
Ultimately, if those people are locked in that room, and they can’t get out,
and they’re burning alive in the room, it’s going to be bad for them.

NM: Right.

DW: Whereas if you turn the heat down and everybody can relax, then they’re
probably going to get along and everybody’s going to be happy.

NM: So there are things that are turning the heat up and down on the sun. But
when you’re talking about heat here, you’re not literally talking about
heat.

DW: I’m not talking literally about heat. If you analogize ‘heat’ to the
idea of your emotional body, then something could be agitating your emotional
body and making you feel irritated and cranky.

You don’t realize that it’s energy. You think that it’s personal — and
you attribute the reason why you’re upset to the personal things happening in
your life, not realizing that pretty much everybody’s going through it at the
same time.

Right now we are in one of those periods where everybody’s energy is cranked
way up…

NM: Yeah.

DW: …and there’s a lot of stress.

NM: Well, I was just about to say…

DW: Yeah. [laughs]

NM: …It is Kerrang. It’s The Night Before. We’re talking to David Wilcock
at the moment. He’s a researcher and lecturer and filmmaker. And what I was
going to say to you is I have noticed, in the United Kingdom at the moment, a
lot of people getting stressed.

Obviously the credit crunch, but not just that. It’s kind of… people being
more irrational and acting quite strange. And also a lot of people getting into
more esoteric stuff, and getting involved in more weird things, in terms of what
they’re interested in.

Are you saying that this is something that is happening across the world
because of these changes in the universe?

DW: Yes, it is. That is exactly what I’m saying.

One of the most fascinating discoveries goes back to the practitioners of
Transcendental Meditation, where they found that if they had a gathering of
7,000 people and those people meditated for a whole week together, that the
overall worldwide amount of terrorist activity, war, violent crime, car
accidents, all of those things substantially decreased.

In fact, in one gathering [terrorism] decreased worldwide by 72%.

This is where it gets fascinating because, although some of these things could
be caused by sun-spots or other astrological factors — various planetary
movements — another aspect of it is that we can control the field ourselves.

When people calm themselves down as groups, then that has a field effect that
will calm other people down.

NM: No way!

DW: And we have wonderful amounts of data to show that.

NM: So, David, in your research, what you’re saying is — and I don’t know
how many people listening to us will have heard of this — but every now and
then a bunch of hippy-dippies will ring us up and say, “Listen, we’re all
just gonna sit down and gonna meditate on love. We’re gonna think nice things.
We’re gonna do it for a couple of hours. It’s gonna happen across the
world.”

And like I said, I don’t know how many people listening to the show are aware
that this happens, but sometimes big groups of people, thousands of people, will
all pick a time specifically to meditate and be nice. Are you saying that does
genuinely work?

DW: Oh yeah! You have to understand there’s been over 22 different scientific
studies of meditation gatherings, which usually are done on the level of the
city that the meditation gathering happens in. In one of the most dramatic
examples, you know, the people that did this were aware that this would reduce
crime and terrorist activity.

There was a gathering in Lebanon during the Israel/Lebanon war in the early
’80s. There was gunfire and explosions going on outside the doors of the
building where the people were having the meditation gathering.

They were actually looking at each other going, “Well, should we, like, run?
Should we evacuate? Because this war is literally right outside the doors of the
building. We could all be blown up in here. Somebody could come in and mow us
all down with a machine gun.”

They decided they were going to trust the science, and trust that if they did
this meditation thing that there would be this wave of energy that would affect
people’s minds. You obviously can’t see the energy, but you’re gonna feel
something, and it will naturally reduce hostility.

So they actually decided not to run. They all meditated together, and sure
enough, by the time they got done meditating it was dead quiet outside. All the
hostility had left the area.

And on 22 different occasions, the cities where they did these meditation
gatherings had substantial decreases in crime, violence, fatalities, terrorism,
all that stuff.

NM: This is incredible. I mean, like I say, I’ve hung out with people who
believe this kind of stuff. I’ve never heard someone like yourself who’s
done all this research to, you know, come along and back it up. That’s quite
insane.

DW: Well, let me put my tinfoil hat on for a moment and just suggest the idea
that there might be power groups that know this stuff really works. They have
made a very good effort of not ever getting anybody to talk about it, because
they don’t want it to be used against them.

NM: Yeah. That’s quite possible, isn’t it?

DW: [laughs]

NM: ’Cause, you know what, this is the next thing I wanted to ask you.
You’re talking about how your mind might not be as private as you think.

DW: Correct.

NM: And you talk about the tinfoil hat. I mean, you say the mind might not be
as private as you think. Do you think it’s possible that sometimes people are
receiving thoughts that are not their own? And if that happens, is that a bad
thing?

DW: No. It’s not really a bad thing at all. One of the most famous authors of
the 20th century, Norman Mailer, moved into an apartment flat, and he started
out a novel where he was writing about a group of characters.

As the novel went on, he inserted a Russian character, which originally was a
minor character. The Russian character became a spy as he kept writing the
novel, and he ended up working the entire novel around this spy.

The whole story was how the guy was a double agent, infiltrating this country
and all this stuff. I believe the novel is called “Barbary Shore”.

NM: Uh huh.

DW: When he finished the novel it turned out that one floor above him, on the
other side of the building that he was living in, was a Russian spy who was a
double agent. All the stuff he was writing into his novel was very specifically
related to what was going on with this spy.

So there’s an example of somebody who appears to have picked up on the
thoughts of somebody living near him as if they were own his imagination. And
this is considered one of the 10 greatest coincidences in human history.

[Correction: This is #9 on the 20 Most Amazing Coincidences list:
http://www.oddee.com/item_82923.aspx ]

You can read about it online, you know.

NM: Yeah. Well, I mean…

DW: It’s not a coincidence. [laughs]

NM: [laughs] Yeah, because what I’m thinking is that you’re looking at the
brain as being something that receives and transmits thoughts, like a radio set
would. Do you know what I mean? Rather than…

DW: That’s exactly right.

NM: So is that actually… I mean, can I receive thoughts? Can you receive
thoughts and transmit them? Is that what you’re telling us?

DW: Yeah. I’m saying we’re doing that all the time. The problem is that we
have… Well, it’s not a problem. It’s actually a blessing. The blessing is
that nature has given us a biasing mechanism that avoids us from going
schizophrenic. That biasing mechanism is that, when thoughts float in, we
interpret them as personal.

But there are multiple studies that have been done that show that, if you live
next door to someone, the rate at which you breathe, the rate at which your
heart is pumping, the rate at which the electrical activity is happening on your
skin…

All of these physiological factors synchronize with the body of the person who
lives next door to you, even if you never talk to the guy that you live next
door to. I know in London that probably happens all the time. It sure does here
in LA.

NM: Hmm.

DW: So this is not just pseudo-science. This is stuff that’s been studied and
laboratory documented.

There’s a guy named Dr. William Braud who put someone in a room with a secret
camera aimed at them, and they don’t even realize it. Then you wire up their
skin for how much electrical activity they have.

When you have someone stare at them in a monitor in another room, then that
person’s electrical activity of being stared at goes way, way up. They have no
idea they’re being stared at. They don’t feel anything. They don’t notice
anything, but their body does.

So a lot of times, animals seem to be much more attuned to this stuff than we
are. That’s why when you’re getting ready to have an earthquake or
something, all the animals flee the area. We don’t feel anything, and then we
get hit, but the animals seem to know something’s coming. And we all…

NM: So have we been talked out of this ability, then?

DW: That’s the point. Yeah. We have this ego, and the ego will get little
nudges and little signals and we just say, “Oh, that doesn’t mean
anything.” We’ve just gotten used to thinking that it doesn’t mean
anything. So, it’s subtle.

The problems is, these kinds of messages never really hit you over the head.
You have to be willing to pay attention to something that could flitter in and
out of your mind very quickly. But another very common example is when somebody
else’s thoughts float into your mind as if they were your own.

I’ve noticed on multiple occasions that I’ll be driving down the road in a
meditative space and think, “Oh, I really ought to go to that gas station and
get gas.” And I don’t even really need gas. My car’s got a half a tank.
But then all of a sudden the car in front of me puts on his blinker, and he
pulls into the gas station to get gas.

And I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh. That guy’s thoughts made me think that.”
The problem is most people are in so much stress that they’re obsessing over
all these details in their mind all the time. Their mind isn’t clear. So all
these Zen Buddhists and Taoist monks and everybody are always telling you to
meditate and clear your mind.

The reason why is that the more that you clear out the repetitive, obsessive
thoughts you would naturally have, the more you’re opening yourself to the
purity of the field, which is ultimately a loving consciousness. It’s a
joyful, expansive, radiant, blissful state to be in.

NM: Wow.

DW: What they call the Power of the Now.

NM: Do you know what? Yeah. David Wilcock, you have done what I said you would
probably do, and that’s split my head open a little bit.

DW: [laughs]

NM: [laughs] Listen, divinecosmos.com is your website. I know you’ve got a
load of stuff on the go. I want to get you on the show again in the future. Your
[MP3 series], “The Science of Peace”, is another [thing] I think people
might want to look into. But, yeah, divinecosmos.com.

If people log on to there, ’cause I know you’ve got a million and one other
things you could tell us about. I want to thank you for joining us on the show.

DW: Oh, it’s been a great pleasure. And also people can Google “2012
Enigma”, which is my video. That’s a great place to start.

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